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Here is the specifics:
351W on the run stand
EFI
5.8 lower 5.0 upper
stock roller cam
aftermarket aluminum heads.
Here is the "problem" (I mentioned it earlier on a different thread but thought it was related to fueling issues) I like to use an inferred thermometer on the header tubes as a way to look for a lean cylinder. When I was running the carb intake and my TBI EFI I noticed cylinder tubes 5 & 6 were not getting as hot a the other 6. Figured it was the TBI setup. Then when I went to the 5.8 lower and 5.0 upper I used my carb to EFI adapter and fired up the engine. Again tubes 5 and 6 were again cooler. Now that I am running MPFI header tubes 5 and 6 are still about 200º cooler. This to me says there is a problem in those cylinders BUT it is not running rough, it's not missing and the engine seams to be running strong. I did a compression test and all 8 cylinders are around 175psi give or take 5. I then checked all 8 spark plugs and they are all firing. All 8 spark plug wires are also working no issues and the distributor is doing its job. I am not getting black smoke or a rich gas smell in the exhaust . I have come to the conclusion that there is nothing wrong with the engine but it still bugs me. Any sage advice or a solution would be welcomed.
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Doesn't sound like you have a problem Day. Don't know how sage it is, but are you using a shroud on radiator? Maybe you're getting more fan flow over the the front left bank with no accessories bolted on.
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50vert wrote:
Maybe you're getting more fan flow over the the front left bank with no accessories bolted on.
Good theory, but the fan is electric and it was off.
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Yeaah... that's all I've got.
Wish my bad theories could be dismissed as easily.
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Where are you placing spot for IR temp gun?
Are headers ceramic or silver coated?
Place some black electrical tape in similar locations on heads and shoot the black tape.
IR cameras and guns can reflect off shiny surfaces and cannot shoot through glass.
When pointed at glass/shiny/reflective surfaces it can mess you up and possibly give you temperatures of an adjacent object like your own body temperature or the sky.
BTW, when you say stock roller cam...Mustang or truck? Just wondering.
Last edited by Nos681 (7/15/2020 8:33 PM)
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I am shooting the top of the header tube after it exits the flange. The headers are old and brown no coating other than rust 😀
It’s the stock truck cam. Didn’t realize they were different. I thought Ford used the same cam for both applications.
Online!
The Mustang roller cam was a better cam than used in most other applications. Definitely better than the truck cams.
I think you're asking a lot that mixture distribution be perfect to each cylinder. The two colder cylinders are running a bit rich, which is why they are cooler. You could trim that if the EFI had individual cylinder fuel trims, but that's unlikely as its high end race style tuning option.
You could try swapping the plugs in those cylinders for one heat range colder and see if it improves.
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You might try swapping injectors and see if the cool cylinders move. A slightly sticky or leaky injector could cause that I guess. If you hold it at a fast idle...say 2K for several minutes do they even out?
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Do the plugs for those two cylinders look different?
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TKOPerformance wrote:
The two colder cylinders are running a bit rich, which is why they are cooler.
Exactly, that is why I was using the thermometer as a diagnostic tool to begin with.
Bullet Bob wrote:
If you hold it at a fast idle...say 2K for several minutes do they even out?
Brilliant idea!! most of the running was at idle, I will check into that the next time I have a chance to mess with it and get back to you.
Raymond_B wrote:
Do the plugs for those two cylinders look different?
Yes and no. There is variation in all the plugs because of all the other fueling setups that have been on this engine up to this point. There is not enough time with any one setup to read the plugs accurately. Also during a previous test there was an issue with a leaking intake and oil getting in the chambers so some of the plugs are blacker then they would normally be. I think your idea is also good. I will go buy a set of cheap plugs and install them that way I can read the plugs after the next running.
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following just t see how this turns out or if it even matters or not.
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Daze wrote:
Here is the specifics:
351W on the run stand
EFI
5.8 lower 5.0 upper
stock roller cam
aftermarket aluminum heads.
Here is the "problem" (I mentioned it earlier on a different thread but thought it was related to fueling issues) I like to use an inferred thermometer on the header tubes as a way to look for a lean cylinder. When I was running the carb intake and my TBI EFI I noticed cylinder tubes 5 & 6 were not getting as hot a the other 6. Figured it was the TBI setup. Then when I went to the 5.8 lower and 5.0 upper I used my carb to EFI adapter and fired up the engine. Again tubes 5 and 6 were again cooler. Now that I am running MPFI header tubes 5 and 6 are still about 200º cooler. This to me says there is a problem in those cylinders BUT it is not running rough, it's not missing and the engine seams to be running strong. I did a compression test and all 8 cylinders are around 175psi give or take 5. I then checked all 8 spark plugs and they are all firing. All 8 spark plug wires are also working no issues and the distributor is doing its job. I am not getting black smoke or a rich gas smell in the exhaust . I have come to the conclusion that there is nothing wrong with the engine but it still bugs me. Any sage advice or a solution would be welcomed.
I had my infrared laser temp gun out tonight because I was checking temperatures at the inlet and outlet on my radiator and decided to check my header tubes too for sh!ts and giggles. My headers are ceramic coated a charcoal gray color. At idle, all of mine were between 575-600 degrees (measured at the same place you did), but #2 and #6 were 100-150 degrees cooler than the others. Engine runs fine. I have decided I am not going to worry about it.
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The Good News:
I SOLVED THE PROBLEM!!!
The Bad News:
The problem was me.
Or at least a simple error I had made that led to the problem.
Todays trouble shooting process:
I did as I said above and and purchased a cheep set of plugs. I gapped and installed them. I then pulled the upper intake so I could retorque the lower intake (Not going to make that mistake twice) From there I checked the cap and rotor again to see if there were any obvious issues. All looked good. I plugged the spark plug wires on to the spark plugs and was about to fire it up, when it occurred to me to double check the firing order at the distributor because I had pulled the wires off one at a time yesterday to test them (but at one point I pulled a second one without reattaching the first) so even though I was sure all was as it had been before I tested the wires, I figured I had better double check. Wouldn't you know it 5 and 6 were reversed at the distributor. With the engine being on an engine run stand I labeled all the spark plug wires at the plug so I could quickly and easily pull stuff apart and put it back together without having to trace the wires to the distributor. The firing order of this engine is (1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8) which means 5 was firing slightly advanced and 6 was firing slightly retarded. It's no wonder the engine seamed to run okay. This problem has created issues for me across 3 different fueling systems and two different engines (tested another 351 I had picked up and to keep things simple I use the same cap and wires) To make matters 5, 6, 7, and 8 feed the header that has my o2 sensor in it so its no wonder I was having issues getting the Megasquirt tuned up properly. After I had the wires hooked up correctly I fired the engine up and it ran way better than it has ever run (Which is saying something because it ran well before) and all the header tubes were within in 50º of one another. It just goes to show that it's easy to trip over the little things and it also goes to show the value of an inferred thermometer as a diagnostic tool.
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We’ve all been there, an d I am 100% sure that 90% of what I know is because I did something wrong the first time. Sticking with it payed off, glad you figured it out. I am yet to attempt EFI.
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Glad to hear you're human Day.
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EFI can lead you down the "garden path". Twice I have had a significant vacuum leak at the manifold/head gaskets and both times the engine ran just fine. First time it didn't want to hot-start and the second time it had the "woo-woo" some of you may recall me complaining about. Butt...I still think I'd rather have EFI than a "dripping pot".
BB1
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