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FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion » Suspension design changed DURING YEAR 1967? » 6/24/2018 8:52 AM

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It sure as hell does look upside-down.  But I assure you it is not. Last time I was at the shop I even took it out myself and tried to fit it in both ways to make sure.  The other way around, the mid-points on the arms hit the frame when you try and rotate the ends up.  Come no where close to reaching the links.  Like 8" away.  

The be clear - the issue isn't the shop, the issue is the MANUFACTURER.  ST Suspensions and Bell Tech.  Not only are they the ones who tried to pitch the '65-'66 sway bar to me, but they also tried to use the VIN decode method that started in the '80s to figure out "when" my car was built during 1967!  They also gave me instructions that the installation needed to be done with the suspension under full car load, whereas their written directions with the part said do it with the suspension not under load.  Just a real sh*t show over there. 

See the image for the side-by-side of the stock bar to their bar. You can see the middle geometry is similar.  But once you get past the bushings, things start to change,  You can see immediately why it would interfere with the struts and have that ridiculous angle at the linkages,  





Stay away from ST Suspensions and their parent company Bell Tech (all the people I worked with on this were from Bell Tech)!  
 

FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion » Suspension design changed DURING YEAR 1967? » 6/11/2018 6:13 PM

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Ok, so this has now been resolved. An thought you all may want to know the heads up result:   

The short of it :  DO NOT buy ST Suspension!!!  

Their customer service was very nice and tried to be helpful, but at the end of the day their part comes no where close to fitting.  And there is nothing "special" about my set-up that would make a part designed for stock no longer fit.  

I went back to the garage and specifically pulled it out myself and tried it the other way around just to make sure  (in case they just botched it) and they were right - it came no where close the even being able to make the connections at all.  The part measurements they sent me to verify I had the right part all checked out.  So I had the right part.  Putting the new bar next to the old stock one showed the significant differences between the two.  I have no idea how they have "been selling this part for 20 years with no issues" (as they claim).  

Now off to try and see if I can get some kind of extra anything for my lost $ installing it and lost hours sorting it out along with the return.
 

FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion » Never enough! One of these days it will be a driver! » 6/11/2018 9:15 AM

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What's that paint you got on there?  (on the front half at least) As much details, PN's, etc. as you have handy, if you can.  It's pretty sweet looking! I like the color and the degree of matte/gloss (or so as it seems in that light at least)

FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion » Suspension design changed DURING YEAR 1967? » 6/07/2018 7:39 AM

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Full disclosure:  long story short, I'm not doing the install on this one.  Not worth getting into the why, it is what it is.  When I saw this and the shop supervisor did, we both asked if it was upside-down.  The tech said they tried it the other way around and the fit didn't work at all due to interference in the middle. In additon, ST suspensiopn has all these images plus a few more showing the overall install and they havn't mentioned that.  Good thought to double check the obvious first, though.  Unlike the time I swapped out a "bad" starter on an Accord only to find the connection between the positive battery cable was shot.  

Thanks all for the insights and confirmation.  I knew the '67 was wider so they could shoe-horn in a larger engine, but that confirms the '66 is suspect for fitting.  I don't see how the 2" difference would work in this.  That's quite a bit.  Sounds like there were some change overs mid year, but they are relatively minor tweaks like you would expect on most any manufacturing line as you start getting more data on the design.  I'd be surprised if they did a retooling that would result in this big of a difference.

As for trying out the '66 if they'll send it:  Honestly, I don;t want to waste my time on it.   The time spent replacing the old one, sending it back, and installing the '66 only to see it not fit and then have to send that back as well... adds up to costing me a lot of hours out of my day as a result of their poor understanding.  Not to mention the calendar time, too.  So if with a little help I can get some background information to prevent one return-test fit-return cycle, I'm all for using it.  

FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion » Ethanol Free gas for sale » 6/07/2018 7:28 AM

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Yeah, remember that E85 fad?  Turns out when they shifted the production that far, the absolute value of the
inefficiencies and costs could not be hidden anymore.  Like that it uses more fossil fuels to make ti than was
being saved.  And the $.  And as TKO gets at with starving people out - the other effect was it drove up corn
prices.  In the U.S. that could largely be absorbed by consumers.  But in places like Mexico and Central America
where $ is a LOT tighter, and corn makes up a larger % of diet, it had a real negative impact on peoples'
dinner tables.  What is very interesting though, is how in countries like Brazil using a different organic
feedstock, the idea of high-ethanol gas being a net-savings actually does work out.  We're just too obsessed
with pushing corn subsidies.  So if we can't do it with corn, no one cares enough since it's not in their
short-term interests.  Yeah you get worse mileage and the engines don't run quite as well, but if it's net savings
even with the lost mileage, and why do Toyota Camrys need 200+ HP, then why not go for it? And leave the good
stuff for us?

And then notice how quietly E85 just faded into the mist?  

FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion » Ethanol Free gas for sale » 6/06/2018 8:25 PM

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Yeah, you're right on with that suspicion.  It's misleading spin and lobbying.  The economics of ethanol on the gas without gov subsidy doesn't pan out. It is actually a net negative in total fossil fuel burn (and cost).  The reason it's cheaper at the pump is government subsidies to farmers.  Gov pays farmers to produce to give then some scratch and to keep food prices down, then as a result process and sell the ethanol from the overproduction to get somewhat of a return.

FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion » Suspension design changed DURING YEAR 1967? » 6/06/2018 7:18 PM

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1967 coupe, small block engine.  So  installing a fat front sway bar - ST suspensions 50040 to be precise.  Don't fit - the bar itself interferes with the struts and the tab at the end bolt to the links at like a 45 degree angle.   Images attached if you're curious, but that's not the main question I'm wondering about.  (in the pictures the car is under weight, but the springs are most likely not fully loaded since the sway bar is probably taking some of the vehicle load directly to the frame)

So contacting ST Suspension, they are starting to imply that I may actually need the 1965-65 sway bar based on WHEN DURING 1967 my car was made.  Did Ford make any changes here during that production year?  And if so, were they significant enough to put things this far out of whack?  I'm not aware of any, but that's not saying a whole lot, I suppose.  I'm trying to get some expert opinion on it so I can call BS on them (if appropriate) early on to save a potential shipment and return cycle if they send me the '66 and it doesn't fit. Cuz, you know, it's not a 66.  To me it just seems they either sent the straight-up wrong part or the part somehow had a missed bend at the bar ends.  







FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion » Barf » 5/10/2018 5:51 AM

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So many things wrong with this. 

http://www.thedrive.com/news/20722/internet-revolts-after-couple-trades-in-husbands-dream-1966-ford-mustang-for-a-new-audi-s5


As the article says, everyone is entitled to do with their property what they want.  But we are also entitled to make opinions and judgement of people based on their actions.  


And it is stereotyping on my part, but.... I can tell exactly what kind of woman that is and what she is like based on her picture. 

FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion » Blasphemy! - Vehicle Wrap » 4/22/2018 5:43 PM

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I agree that the best use for vinyl is high-graphic jobs,

But that doesn't change that vinyl is now being heavily marketed for single color jobs.  Which is how I came about it as a potential option, then the notion of chip resistance made me hesitate a bit.  

Just look at these guys:

http://wrapbullys.com/matte-car-wraps/

Places like that are turning out to be dime a dozen.  It's an attractive business - very, very low cost in equipment overhead.  No hazmat regs to follow.  Takes some training and practice, but that's not that bad.  And if you screw up a panel, well, it's a hella easier to pull a sticker off than to re-sand and re-prep an entire panel.  And then the art of color matching and laying down metal flake or pearl.... 

  And throw in on top of that, as I found out, repeat business.  You product don't last that long, but as short as advertised in the fine print, and so a percentage will come back in to freshen it up or change it up on a regular basis.  Not everyone, but it's still a much larger percentage than would come in every 3-5 years to repaint the same car.  

FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion » Blasphemy! - Vehicle Wrap » 4/12/2018 6:55 PM

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I agree that the vinyl has it's purpose.  Mainly graphics work.  Like the falcon and some cool looking ones I've seen with faux-carbon fiber.  For color effects and multi-tone that would just be much more expensive in paint but a digital printer can crank it out no-problemo.  As for use by someone who wants to frequently change colors (one color car)... I'm not so sure, personally.  But I can see it argued either way.

Regardless, what I have been finding and hearing, which is what lead me down this rabbit hole, is that vinyl is being pushed more and more as a full-spectrum replacement for paint.  Not a just special-case replacement.  Not for me and my application, per above!  

 

FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion » Seat Track Extenders » 4/10/2018 8:46 PM

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I also did my own track extenders.  Was a bit more effort than the cost of an OTS paert would have been. But, I also was able to fit a different bolt pattern in a different seat at the same time which gave me a much nicer seat at a fraction of the cost of a new mustang seat.  

While I was at it, ans repairing the floor, I cut an inch and a half out of the seat riser.  Awesome move.  Of course, I'm 6'7" so I need all the room I can get.  

FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion » Blasphemy! - Vehicle Wrap » 4/10/2018 8:42 PM

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Yeah, the DIY went out the door on this pretty quick.  I have not had good luck myself in shooting things, and as others mentioned matte is hard to fix.  Pretty much a re-do.  Then there is the aspect that even when I paint with rattle cans in my garage, it smells all over the first floor.  Even after putting plastic over the connecting door.  Add in 2k, and no-beuno.  

I quickly got off my 2 day brain fart on wraps.  Did some further research and primary reasons were:

- No savings on prep as you all mentioned.  Every little imperfections comes through.
- $ for $ on equivalent offerings, actually does not end up saving you $.  Despite what wrappers claim.  They usually accomplish this in the fuzziness of comparing these. A mid-level wrap is cheaper than an entry-level premium paint job.  But does not look nearly the same (seams, delamination, rough cuts around features, wear on sharp edges, crappy cutting around protrusions, emblems, antennas, etc. I saw some naaaasty images.  
- Longevity.  They say "lasts 7 years with care, a paint job will list 5-7 with care."  What the hell?  how many of you repaint your car every 7 years?
- Longevity.  About that 7-years....  most all vinyl mfgs. have a 5 or 7 or whatever year warranty.  But then change that based on your location and the surface angle!  For example, one well known supplier had a 0% multiplier on horizontal surfaces in California.  As in - NO warranty!  
- Back to cost.  The closest same-same estimate I could do without too much effort put the cost for the vinyl applications was just about $1k under a very good "mask and spray" restoration-specialty shop I talked to (so not your Maaco level).  How does that "savings" rack up if you have to pay a mask-and-spray level fee every 7 years?  Mmmm-hm.
- As y'all also said - the paint job is probably the one cost that affects you daily perception and pride the most.  An even ok-wrapper that gets a little bubble or delamination or peeled co

FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion » Blasphemy! - Vehicle Wrap » 4/09/2018 7:13 PM

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So long time ago some of you may recall a post I did about the headaches of getting the car painted matte.  Cuttin' through the crap - car is still not painted.  I'm a little concerned on the guys' capabilities to actually pull off a matte paint because of the condition of his booth.  Real dirty, and I saw he does a lot of his sanding, bondo, and prep work in there because it has better light.  So dust galore.  and you can;t buff dust specs out of a matte paint.  

Then I go to thinking - do I just have him lay down the 2k primer after the body work then have another place do a vinyl wrap??  So wanted to get some thoughts.  I know the paint shops will tell me whatever they can to get me to stay and paint, the vinyl wrap companies will tell me whatever they can to get a job out of it.  So some unbiased opinions.  

Pluses: 
- Better surface look, less imperfections during painting.  
- Resilient to chipping and scratching.  This is very appealing to me based on how easily my last paint job chipped and scratched (albeit it was a maaco-level job).  Also recall, I may get a long, hilly, gravel driveway.  Plus, just general road debris.  
- I'm not looking to change up the color often, so don't much care about that aspect.
- Get a scratch, repair a panel, etc. It's probably cheaper and easier job (depending on where the ding occurs and how much gets replaced).  Color match will at least be right.  

Minuses
- It's vinyl.  
- '67 mustang - so the job in the faux side intakes will not be great since they are so deep and narrow
- Probably will cost more than just having this guy shoot it with paint.... if he can pull it off.  

Some q's:

- I personally haven't seen one close up (that I know of).  Is it one of those situations where it looks just like paint at 10', but up close you can tell it's vinyl? 

- Environmental protection.  If he hits it with 2k primer, then vinyl gets on top of that, what's the story with ingress of absorption of wat

FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion » Gravel driveway incline? » 3/23/2018 9:48 AM

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Ha!  If that was my rig I'd wouldn't be worrying about much.  

TKO - thanks for the tidbits and info.  I may take you up on that offer to run some things by you if I get into a quandary or get suspicious of something.  And definitely going to look into 3 floors as opposed to 2.  Right now the plan is to try and make some areas easily expandable, like the workshop (although don't worry - there will be a workshop.  We are contractually obligated to have one due to an agreement with our architect.  Of course I won't put up much of a fight about that - "No, honey, see we HAVE to have space for a separate painting and varnishing area.  It's in the contract.  Just like the welding hood.").  I have seen some techniques in Africa and Central America where they leave a few feet or rebar sticking out of the top floor so they can add on later on.  Not quite the extent we were looking at, but maybe leave a junction box and duct work to be easily tapped into at the outside wall. Similar with the bedroom side of the house so we can change what might initially be a 2-bedroom into a 4-bedroom.  Anything else structural akin to the rebar sticking out that will make life easier when it comes time? Like maybe some different way to finish off the joists or other structural tie-ins on the outside wall that would be expanded upon?


Good thoughts and observations by all on this.  Nice to have.  My parents' drive is 12 deg. and is barely workable without 4WD.  So maybe around 5 deg, max from that and what others have said.  I'd love to just go asphalt, but the cost difference could easily be $20k.....  A bit Appalachian, but maybe we could look into doing asphalt for the more problem sections that you all have flagged like steeper hills and area prone to washout.  Not ideal, but if it saves $10k that could otherwise be put into the house or filling up that new workshop space... 


(don't take that as a dig against hill folk, my parents live in the foothills and I have

FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion » Gravel driveway incline? » 3/22/2018 6:18 PM

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Yeah, we're probably going to quote it both ways since the grading could put the gravel on par with the asphalt.  Plus chips in my nice new paint job...

In my experience with my last house, asphalt is lower maintenance but not no maintenance.  So there is some cost there, albeit less than gravel.  We're also needing to do some financial engineering and weighing of upfront costs of everything else we want to do, versus costs later down the line.  Essentially, the way the income streams, construction loan sizes, and budgets are working out, we have a finite amount to do the project with.  So $10k now takes directly away from the house or garage.  Whereas higher maintenance fees of several $k throughout the following years is a slightly different account.

We're in  North Carolina, so snow is not much concern.  The lot is wooded, so leaves are the bigger hassle.

Driveway might be approx. 700' - 900'.  So the total cost difference between the two surfaces shakes out to be a pretty large number.    

  

FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion » Gravel driveway incline? » 3/22/2018 1:44 PM

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So I may be building a new homestead.  We need to get quotes on the driveway to factor into our budget and land offer.  The potential parcel has lots of hills, so the question is:

Do any of you have experience with, or a good feeling of, the maximum incline a mustang can handle going SLOWLY up a gravel driveway?  My parent's place has a steep one that I know my mustang would just spin and throw rocks on.  Hell, a front-wheel drive sedan barely makes it.  

I don't want to come rolling in on move day and find out I need to rip out and regrade the driveway.  Or that I could have moved the garage location a little to the left and saved enough money to buy a second project car to fill the extra bay.   Thoughts?  The ride is up in the paint shop right now, so just taking it out looking for steep drives to try out is not quite practical.  

FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion » Interesting find upon driveshaft removal » 9/26/2017 7:57 AM

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Yeah.  As part of my job (new product design engineer) I have found that in general, the Chinese factories have not figured out how to do hardening.  They'll claim they can, but their nominal harnesses are off and their standard deviations through a production run are ridiculous, to say nothing when they do non-consecutive production runs that require re-setting up the machines.  And don't even get started into their comprehension of case hardening...  

If you have any steel where the hardness is critical, stay away.  

FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion » Best Front End Upgrades... Opinions? » 9/25/2017 9:24 AM

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So while doing all this work, I have found my front end is shot.  All ball joints and bushings are done or rotted out to the point where they are straight up gone.  So new bushings and tie rod ends are a must.  Springs, too.  Shocks are $20/each KYB's that I put in just to stay on the road so don't mind those going bye-bye.  

So I figure I'd employ the 4 most expensive words int he English language - "While you're at it...":

What are everyone's favorite front end suspension/steering upgrades? And even if I get height adjustable coilovers (not a forgone conclusion, though, based on feedback I may get) is the Shelby drop worth it, or just get the reduction in height from the adjustment at the coilovers?

Due to the body work, custom paint, new engine build, etc. I'd ideally like to keep the whole shebang under $1k for parts, but still want to hear what everyone says since that is flexible...

FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion » Paint shop Raleigh, NC? Or what to ask a shop for? I hit a dead end! » 9/25/2017 8:32 AM

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To close the loop on this:

I did find a guy to paint it!!!  He was exactly the type of guy I was wanting to find - has a place outside of town, a few scrap cars on his properties, willing to and can do any job - insurance work, custom jobs, body work, mechanic, and breeds German Shepards.  Has a towing business for anything from tiny hybrids to Semis and RVs.  A great guy whose usual response is "yeah, we can do that for ya."  in a thick NC accent.  When looking over my car  he even mentioned off hand "You know... I've got a 9" Ford diff with disc brakes on it just sittin' over there.  Just sayin'...."

So if you are in the Raleigh/Durham, NC area and need anything - Advanced Towing and Collision is the way to go.  I told him he should make a different branded subsidiary to push his custom and all-around work, but we'll see.  He seems plenty busy and happy for now.

So thanks to the community for keeping me going!!

Also - the roof was a very pleasant surprise.  A bunch of pock marks and a few rust holes no bigger than a 1/4" here and there.  Probably the first thing ever that went my way on this damn car.  

FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion » Paint shop Raleigh, NC? Or what to ask a shop for? I hit a dead end! » 7/01/2017 8:49 AM

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Ok, so I knew isocyantes in urethane was an issue from a research project I did for a client a while back, but it is sounding like it is a big no-go for painting in an attached garage.  Any ideas?  

FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion » Paint shop Raleigh, NC? Or what to ask a shop for? I hit a dead end! » 7/01/2017 7:02 AM

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So Maaco (at least the ones near me) don't shoot satin finishes.  I am so tired of how difficult these seemingly simple things can be.  Looks like unless I want to wait 8 months and shell out $10k+, I'm signing up to do it myself.  Time to start the research and make the judgement....

I am really scared of this roof though.  I don't know what to do if I peel back that vinyl and find it needs a new one.  Anyone else deal with this?


 

FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion » Paint shop Raleigh, NC? Or what to ask a shop for? I hit a dead end! » 6/30/2017 8:07 PM

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Interesting.  Maybe I will give Maaco another look.  I had them paint this same car about 15 years ago for $700 (I removed chrome and took all top surfaces down to metal per their recommendation since the car had been reshot once already).  The color has held up fine.  What I wasn't happy with was how easily it scratched.  And since I am going with a satin and can't using rubbing compound or color waxes to hide them....

I'll give them a ring tomorrow.  Maybe I will be prepping this weekend!

Any other thoughts?  

Also the dreaded roof... looks like repo coup roofs are STILL unavailable.  Everyone says they are a dime a dozen in the scrap yard.  I must find this mythical mustang scrap yard one day.  

FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion » Paint shop Raleigh, NC? Or what to ask a shop for? I hit a dead end! » 6/30/2017 3:36 PM

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Thanks.  I have been very tempted to just do it myself - that ends up happening a lot to me in hobbies and at work.  But from prior experience painting my quarter panels over and over and over again due to f#%$n' runs and drips I am trying my best to not do resort to this (although that was a rattle can job.  But still - it was enough to tell myself painting is not my strong suit).  

FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion » Paint shop Raleigh, NC? Or what to ask a shop for? I hit a dead end! » 6/30/2017 2:44 PM

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Just outside Raleigh, North Carolina.  Recent transplant so I don't know the area at all.  

Board footera


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